"Being exposed to average bodies, to average humans, makes you readjust your perspective about what is normal, and what is acceptable, and what is beautiful," says Rachitskiy.
I'm sure that's the crux of it. My own experience of nude beaches is that it feels normal and is very relaxing. You see other people nude and they are all normal bodies with all sorts of variety.
I don't see how this really works. Sure you see that most people have average bodies but when you see someone who looks like a Roman statue or has an otherwise "perfect" body then would you not still compare yourself to that?
It's not really about learning to rank yourself against other people's bodies more or less accurately. The point is to stop obsessing so much over how your body compares to other peoples' bodies in the first place.
My experience after visiting nude saunas and beaches in Germany is that you're in an environment where no matter what someone's body looks like, the social responsibility is to be casually respectful, and not make a big deal out of someone's body regardless of whether it's normal, or exceptional in a positive or negative sense.
This helps one put into context that it doesn't actually matter so much what your body looks like. You can be beautiful or hideous, and still have a right to relax and feel comfortable and go about your day.
I think that clothing has a way of amplifying our curiosity and reinforcing taboos. When you strip away the clothing you learn to relax about this whole business of fixating on how your body might compare.
Because it doesn't work, or works only trivially. Yes, seeing other bodies can make you feel better about yours, but it can make you feel worse too.
Depends on the distribution of bodies, which ones you focus on, and your attitudes to beauty in general. Seeing a bunch of normal things doesn't magically make those normal things all suddenly beautiful or okay, beauty and aesthetic desirability are almost always about the exceptional, practically by definition.
You can put me in a room full of mostly obese people, and tell me this is normal and representative of average (which it may well, in America), and you aren't going to change my mind about that obesity being ugly or undesirable. There are actual facts here, beauty and attractiveness aren't purely socially constructed.
> Depends on the distribution of bodies, which ones you focus on, and your attitudes to beauty in general. Seeing a bunch of normal things doesn't magically make those normal things all suddenly beautiful or okay, beauty and aesthetic desirability are almost always about the exceptional, practically by definition.
Is the problem that it would actually address more the skewed distribution of scantily-clad bodies that people are actually exposed to (e.g. heavily weighted towards thinner and more attractive people in media (social and traditional) and porn)?
I don't think these kinds of "interventions" can do much, because seeing a bunch of people in a room doesn't somehow make you forget what you see in the media, or suddenly lose knowledge of what makes you desirable for dating, sex, appearances and etc.
I.e. it doesn't matter if you know that certain body types that are currently deemed desirable are rare or unrealistic if you still know that those are what are desired. Also, it isn't just desirability, but our knowledge of associations with health (obesity has undesirable health consequences, regardless if it is accepted or not; being fit over just "average" is again better for health and general ability) that also play into this, and are not changed really by any knowledge of the distribution of body types.
At the end of the day, attraction and desirability just aren't purely socially constructed (see: role of symmetry in attraction in basically all species with sexual selection), so you can't fix the problem with naive little things like this.
Agree. I think that the reaction of finding a lean, well proportioned human body to be attractive is the hard-wired norm for most people. It's got nothing to do with social media, fashion models, porn, or anything like that. Those things accentuate and exaggerate what is already naturally attractive to most people, not the other way around.
If you are living in northern Europe, you can also just go to a sauna.
The core conclusion "makes you feel better about yourself" is really a no-brainer if you regularly go to a sauna. Plus, as bonus, it's healthy for your cardiovascular system, your immune system and probably for your skin too.
I would. I'd argue it's only in recent times humans have hidden the body with clothing and made just about everything taboo and you've been brain-washed to think that is OK. It's only illegal because some people found it offensive and now all people find it offensive.
No one is doing this in public places where children are. These are presumably designated nude beaches and nudist colonies. So as long as you don’t bring your children there intentionally they should be safe.
> No one is doing this in public places where children are
There are literally subreddits dedicated to finding communal showers that kids use. They have FAQs on how to deal with erections when families are around.
Some people care so much about other people being nude that I can only assume they're diddlers.
"Being exposed to average bodies, to average humans, makes you readjust your perspective about what is normal, and what is acceptable, and what is beautiful," says Rachitskiy.
I'm sure that's the crux of it. My own experience of nude beaches is that it feels normal and is very relaxing. You see other people nude and they are all normal bodies with all sorts of variety.
I don't see how this really works. Sure you see that most people have average bodies but when you see someone who looks like a Roman statue or has an otherwise "perfect" body then would you not still compare yourself to that?
It's not really about learning to rank yourself against other people's bodies more or less accurately. The point is to stop obsessing so much over how your body compares to other peoples' bodies in the first place.
My experience after visiting nude saunas and beaches in Germany is that you're in an environment where no matter what someone's body looks like, the social responsibility is to be casually respectful, and not make a big deal out of someone's body regardless of whether it's normal, or exceptional in a positive or negative sense.
This helps one put into context that it doesn't actually matter so much what your body looks like. You can be beautiful or hideous, and still have a right to relax and feel comfortable and go about your day.
I think that clothing has a way of amplifying our curiosity and reinforcing taboos. When you strip away the clothing you learn to relax about this whole business of fixating on how your body might compare.
Sure, but given that you see what the average looks like you understand that that perfect body is an exception.
What if you discover that you are exceptionally ugly?
congratulations on being exceptional
Yes, but also to all the other non-perfect bodies. Puts things in perspective.
Because it doesn't work, or works only trivially. Yes, seeing other bodies can make you feel better about yours, but it can make you feel worse too.
Depends on the distribution of bodies, which ones you focus on, and your attitudes to beauty in general. Seeing a bunch of normal things doesn't magically make those normal things all suddenly beautiful or okay, beauty and aesthetic desirability are almost always about the exceptional, practically by definition.
You can put me in a room full of mostly obese people, and tell me this is normal and representative of average (which it may well, in America), and you aren't going to change my mind about that obesity being ugly or undesirable. There are actual facts here, beauty and attractiveness aren't purely socially constructed.
EDIT: The only actual supporting non-correlational "study" is funded by British Naturism, and has 52 participants, with all the usual hallmarks of bad social psych as well https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/28407/1/2020.03.09%20M...
> Depends on the distribution of bodies, which ones you focus on, and your attitudes to beauty in general. Seeing a bunch of normal things doesn't magically make those normal things all suddenly beautiful or okay, beauty and aesthetic desirability are almost always about the exceptional, practically by definition.
Is the problem that it would actually address more the skewed distribution of scantily-clad bodies that people are actually exposed to (e.g. heavily weighted towards thinner and more attractive people in media (social and traditional) and porn)?
I don't think these kinds of "interventions" can do much, because seeing a bunch of people in a room doesn't somehow make you forget what you see in the media, or suddenly lose knowledge of what makes you desirable for dating, sex, appearances and etc.
I.e. it doesn't matter if you know that certain body types that are currently deemed desirable are rare or unrealistic if you still know that those are what are desired. Also, it isn't just desirability, but our knowledge of associations with health (obesity has undesirable health consequences, regardless if it is accepted or not; being fit over just "average" is again better for health and general ability) that also play into this, and are not changed really by any knowledge of the distribution of body types.
At the end of the day, attraction and desirability just aren't purely socially constructed (see: role of symmetry in attraction in basically all species with sexual selection), so you can't fix the problem with naive little things like this.
Agree. I think that the reaction of finding a lean, well proportioned human body to be attractive is the hard-wired norm for most people. It's got nothing to do with social media, fashion models, porn, or anything like that. Those things accentuate and exaggerate what is already naturally attractive to most people, not the other way around.
If you are living in northern Europe, you can also just go to a sauna.
The core conclusion "makes you feel better about yourself" is really a no-brainer if you regularly go to a sauna. Plus, as bonus, it's healthy for your cardiovascular system, your immune system and probably for your skin too.
Also Korean spas and Japanese onsens.
A lot of other cultures don't have this level of unease around nudity.
In theory, sure. For me personally... not so much.
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There can be other valid perspectives than your own.
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I'm pretty sure if we had sex in public we would feel less weird about sex too. But I wouldn't advocate about that.
I would. I'd argue it's only in recent times humans have hidden the body with clothing and made just about everything taboo and you've been brain-washed to think that is OK. It's only illegal because some people found it offensive and now all people find it offensive.
We've been wearing clothing for about 170,000 years....
> you've been brain-washed to think that is OK
Some of us have learned new things in the past 170,000 years
> now all people find it offensive
This entire post is about how many people do not find it offensive
The world needs less indecency.
Just don't do this around other people's children without consent; that's all I ask. Some families aren't as permissive, and that's OK.
No one is doing this in public places where children are. These are presumably designated nude beaches and nudist colonies. So as long as you don’t bring your children there intentionally they should be safe.
Did child endangerment write this?
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> No one is doing this in public places where children are
There are literally subreddits dedicated to finding communal showers that kids use. They have FAQs on how to deal with erections when families are around.
Some people care so much about other people being nude that I can only assume they're diddlers.