My simple take: Hermes is for the less technical and is more polished. OpenClaw is deeper with more capabilities.
OpenClaw has come so far since its' original launch/craze. I recommend taking a second look if you haven't touched it in a while. If for no other reason than it's just a really fun playground with a LOT of areas to experiment in. Setup a myriad of agents with various models, skills, cron jobs, etc.
The control surfaces have come a long way as well.
Hermes is good fun, running that as well but feels like they focused on polish vs features in order to capitalize on the primitive state that OpenClaw was in for its first months.
People that got attracted to the hype of openclaw but couldn't endure the fast pace of breaking changes while they figured out the problem space were well served by going to Hermes.
About three weeks ago I was seduced by people singing praise to OpenClaw, and also by the fact that OpenClaw team burns millions of dollars of tokens per month on developing it — surely it must be good.
It turned out to be probably the crappiest, glitchiest piece of software I’ve used in the past few years. Its basic onboarding workflow was completely broken, GUI was a hallucinated mess.
Also it turned out that not a single person I know who dedicated time to configuring it, ever achieved anything remotely interesting as a result.
That was my experience a couple months ago, and until someone shows me real evidence of something valuable they've made with it, I'm not wasting my time on this stuff again.
A friend of mine automated the lead generation and marketing function of his tiny startup using OpenClaw and set of skills he wrote for it. It would find potential leads (from a list of sources), contact them, score them and keep the owner informed via. Slack about what's going on. They actually closed a few deals following up on leads generated by their bots.
My Mac Mini took so long to arrive that I never messed with OpenClaw/Hermes and just went straight to Claude CoWork w/ Dispatch from my phone. One of the biggest blessings in disguise I can remember.
I read /r/openclaw for ideas on automations and 95% of the content is complaints or people having it do things that just don't need to be done.
As a side question for anyone reading this, what are the best agentic AI subreddits for people who are actually using it for work and not just personal dashboards?
I tried OpenClaw, but holy smokes, that project is bigger than Postrgres. All I want is a Pi session I can put on a server and load up with skills, that I can chat with over matrix.
To that end, I found this amazing project called OpenCrow. It's aggressively DM chat, and I wanted support for group chats (so it can be a household helper), so I forked* it and made it exactly what I want.
Now I actually have two personal agents, one just for me, and one for the household. They are each in their own container, and the whole thing is managed by my Nix* config.
Everything you mentioned OpenClaw does is also something that Hermes supports. Hermes also supports project-scoped kanban boards and can orchestrate across multiple specialized Hermes profiles.
What are some examples of features that they have added since December that you use? I originally had setup openclaw back in Jan(?) and had it generating some news summaries for me and stuff. But ran out of ideas... would like to try it out again.
I really want to like these "agentic assistant" tools, because I feel like the problem they claim to solve is real: give me an interface across desktop and mobile to a persistent backend where I can set up agents (using natural language) to do... whatever I want. Deep market research? Building + hosting a browser game? Checking my email? etc.
But after trying both Hermes and OpenClaw, it feels like they both... miss the point? Last time I tried OpenClaw it wanted to download something like 11 GB of local models to do... something (embeddings for memory indexing or chat labeling/classification maybe?) which my sorry old 16gb M1 is certainly not capable of running.
Hermes seems to suffer from the same problem: why do I need to download (and then immediately disable to avoid confusing my poor "agents"... a concept which I also feel like way too many tools fundamentally misunderstand) skills for managing Spotify playlists or pokemon or minecraft in order to run the thing? (I acknowledge that they cleaned some of this up in a recent release, so maybe this isn't as bad as it was when I last tried it)
WRT "agents"... can someone explain to me why there's so much effort put into naming agents and giving them personalities? An "agent" is simply a separate context window with different prompting (itself written by the spawning/parent "agent") that's specific to a partial slice of the task you're trying to solve. If you have to write their prompt ahead of time that defeats the whole purpose of a programmable, autonomous subagent, doesn't it?
I tried to make mine as human-like as possible, with self-reflection, episodic memory / hippocampus, emotional tagging etc. If you prefer talking to a person, not a tool, you can take a look at https://lethe.gg/ (open source, written in Rust, hosted version available).
I've used Hermes Agent in a container, and it worked ok. Little rought around the edges, but that's to be expected.
But what I didn't understand... what benefit does it actually bring? On a default loadout, even after disabling tons of skills in the setup wizard, there were lots of useless garbage skills enabled, over 10k of context used just to list them all.
I vibe-coded my own harness that uses ACP so it supports any coding CLI that exposes ACP (copilot cli, opencode, basically every popular one with official or non-official wrappers). And I was able to achieve basically exactly what I wanted from any Claw-like agent, in like a few hours.
I know there's way, way more to these self-sufficient agents (compaction, memory system, etc) but in my mind, it feels like the closer you can be to a barebones "coding agent core" plus "gateways that point to it" the better.
I did the same thing. I use the Pi coding agent and they support extensions. I asked GPT 5.5 to create a Pi extension that has the magic of Hermes and for me that was the long term memory and the cron/scheduling. And that way, I can use Pi as is and turn on these using a slash command.
I've done similar, even to the point of a discord gateway integration that is very similar to the one Hermes ships with.
I still use Hermes because it's not a problem I care about solving right now and am spending my time and tokens on more important problems. I don't plan to always use it, and if anything it gives me ideas for what the ideal shape of what I want would be.
Also to add, having a unified space to chat with an agent that has a local system it can work with is quite liberating because I use it to drive my agent orchestration system. So I'm no longer bound to my computer or any one providers harness and whatever mobile solution they provide if any. It's been quite freeing and I don't use Hermes that differently than I would chatgpt, except it know exactly how I like to do my work and that means I have to remind it less.
there is no debacle, ". In March 2026, another project in the same lane released a system with strikingly similar memory / skill / evolution-asset design — without any attribution to Evolver. " there is nothing new about memory (aka sessions saved), skills (aka prompt in a file), etc folks have been doing this for 2+ years.
Looking at their blog about it, I don't think Evolver has any claim to be honest. They make such generic claims as that session history was copied because they implemented their history in some `.jsonl` files while Hermes has a session history using sqlite FTS. Evolver better have some attribution crediting Anthropic for their session history feature, because as far as I can tell they've had that implemented since early 2025! Using .jsonl files no less, coincidentally the same way that Evolver decided to implement session history.
I was expecting them to show code samples or something, but to me it looks more like these were two projects that ended up coming up with similar looking features, even with different implementations of these features. I don't see how Nous Research owes them any explanation, especially since at least from that linked issue they were coming in really hot with accusations of plagiarism. If I owned a large OSS project that amassed issues/discussions/PRs at a rate of ~4k per month I would probably also treat this kind of thing as spam.
"Teknium" was also defending things on X like a Polymarket skill being pre-installed and stuff.
Seems like both projects are a bit unprofessional in terms of leaders. Hermes just tries to sound more authoritative with the "Nous Research" name and fancy site, etc.
Note that the polymarket skill was for using it as a research source, not for placing wagers, and has since been removed as part of a larger streamlining of the included set of skills.
Ya I can't take them seriously after reading through that, they sound like a bunch of clowns. There was no evidence of anything other than 'this company had similar features that we offered'
Boo fucking hoo. The desktop agent space converges on a small set of features that overlap. Grow the fuck up.
I just asked Antigravity to clone the repo to look to see if it might have leaky code and it flat out refused three times in a row to even clone it. It would seem the snake is eating its own head.
tl;dr for people who just read the inaccurate quote: It was the default search provider (for free), if you configured anything else, it was not used. They removed the default.
Did you read it? Given it's all AI slop I wouldn't be surprised if not, but the claim is basically "I had this idea first, I think they stole it from me."
Not that they stole code or even copy, just the idea from a completely open source project (at the time).
Given how many people have posted and released similar systems over the time skills came out and even before, that's a huge claim with no substance to back it.
I agree on the point of linking it, which the HN thread linked before supposedly had a link to the blog post in question but it did not have any content. So thanks for sharing nonetheless.
Wow, I didn't know that. I was getting impressed by Hermes but yeah, I didn't know about it so thanks for telling me.
The behaviour by NousResearch is a bit bad (if I am understanding it correctly, I can be wrong, I usually am) but given its an open source project. I don't think that accredition makes a project bad and I simply don't understand the rationale behind a lot of it and streissand effect is starting to kick in the more they might be trying to hide it.
Why not just accredit EvoMap's Evolver or come up with an official statement or have a proper discussion between the two teams
> The behaviour by NousResearch is so bad given its an open source project. I don't think that accredition makes a project bad and I simply don't understand the rationale behind a lot of it and streissand effect is starting to kick in the more they might be trying to hide it.
> Why not just accredit EvoMap's Evolver or come up with an official statement or have a proper discussion between the two teams
Given that LLMs are capable of generating code from open source projects verbatim (and entire books like Harry Potter verbatim) and no one gives a damn it seems like copyright is essentially a dead letter, legally speaking at least And the courts (in the US and elsewhere) haven't decided to intervene at all. Still a scummy thing to do morally though, I agree.
2. In the future, there won't be copyright. Or open source. Or anything "owned". It can all just be copied trivially, and there's literally no stopping it.
3. I don't know how to feel about any of that. This is so new and complicated. The whole world is changing dramatically and being completely reshaped.
As Musk and Dorsey have said, IP law is highly incompatible with AI.
Wasn't there some news a while ago that Anthropic and other frontier model companies used a bunch of pirated books to train their models? Are we not all benefiting from the fact that they also crawled a bunch of open code repos?
If something is open source, it's pretty easy to tell if code is pulled directly from another repo and included in a project. It's much harder to know if whatever model was building something pulled from it (through training or simply searching online).
> Wasn't there some news a while ago that Anthropic and other frontier model companies used a bunch of pirated books to train their models? Are we not all benefiting from the fact that they also crawled a bunch of open code repos?
can someone tell me the actual market size for technophiles who I think are only people who use this stuff? I get lost in fact that people can't really understand that end of day this is just llm calls with like sqlite facade. I see the value is the convenience only of not having to set stuff up, but everyone else claims it does all this extra stuff that is not trivial to reproduce yourself.
> can someone tell me the actual market size for technophiles who I think are only people who use this stuff?
Approximately zero. Grifters, FOMO driven technophiles, and wannabe "founders" jumped on the bandwagon because it was "the next big thing" (where did I hear that before?). Now that the creator got cushy job at OpenAI, and the hype is over, it's just another tech bro toy to burn tokens with and scratch your OCD.
Claude at least has had memory for months, and also has scheduling now (and knows cron better than you or I, and can easily trigger itself on a schedule)
Yeah, everyone has built their own version of all this shit.
I built smth similar which lets you delegate from say local model to Claude or mimicode to pi. It does audited, workspace segregated mcp calls with only 3 tools ever in context. It can store skills, cross harness memory, inbuilt AI first task manager. Workflows that can run on triggers or schedules which take skills, a model, a prompt and a hand picked set of mcp tools (very granular).
I use this to let me know what’s going on, to save tokens in Claude by delegating to MiMo and deepseek, and local models in pi.
No one using these things has a use case for them - if they did they’d have built it themselves like I have. Because with ai… you can!
Oh and it can work via telegram (cos if it doesn’t is it even an ai harness token furnace!!??)
I still don't understand the point of these. I use AI basically 12 hours a day, and still haven't found a use case for it that isn't solved easily with existing tools, bash scripts, cron jobs, etc. Especially with Codex App now, why do I need OpenClaw? I don't need to be able to call my AI agent on the phone... That's a gimmick.
I set up a Hermes agent for our company and connected it to BigQuery, Stripe, Amplitude, etc so that our nontechnical teammates can ask and answer their own data questions via Slack. It works great!
I similarly haven’t found it useful to run a bunch of these agents in developing the product, but it’s a nice interface for people who don’t live in their terminal all day.
What are you automating with OpenClaw in June, 2026?
I used OpenClaw -> Hermes -> my own thing now.
I've got things like code review, email inbox/spam filtering, website monitoring for bad links/typos, HN/Bluesky notifications, favorite director/actors/author alerts, etc.
I mostly interact with them using Slack and Email.
I don't understand people running OpenClaw. I just full shot a prompt to create a better clone. Its extremely custom to my work and flow. I use it as a personal agent, emails, slacks + as a hardcore coding agent. If it sees a problem in email it will create a ticket, assign it to an agent monitor progress, get a PR ready for me - then it harasses me until I review the PR. If I ignore the PR it will call my wife. It can also reason on what emails need critical attention etc.
OpenClaw deserves a lot of credit for making these things more accessible and understandable to people. It really popularized the idea of async agents. But yeah, I also created a different solution that I prefer.
When I dropped my Claude sub a few months ago I first went to try pi. At first I was a little overwhelmed by having to browse extensions to get the experience I want (coupled with finding new model providers to use).
So I looked elsewhere and found Crush and Hermes. They're both very a e s t h e t i c, which I think can make using them fun, but ultimately if I had a nitpick, I would look back over at pi, and the grass looked greener. (And not to mention, both Hermes and Crush seem to have some drama/baggage.)
I'm back on pi, and happy with just a few packages I've downloaded for it.
I still don't really get the case for OpenClaw/NanoClaw/Hermes Agent/etc. I guess it's a mix of huge stacks of notes/second brain stuff but with a way to query it, and a place where all personal "AI apps" can live ; instead of making AI apps "individually" and deploying them somewhere?
I do have a website on which I've been adding more and more stuff for personal use and for sharing with people, but when I want to develop it I do it with any agent I'm using right now (Codex, Claude Code, Pi, etc) and when I want to ask questions about it, it's usually on the public internet so any chat interface can query it. That leaves two things: asking questions about more private stuff, and possibly a "claw" that lives on your computer/on a small server is less of a pain to connect to private stuff than building a MCP and authenticate yourself through it ; and apps that themselves use models, which can be developed by the "code agent" and then I can plug whatever model I want on it.
My struggle is despite giving it a good honest go I couldn’t find the use case for OpenClaw. Maybe I and my life is just too simple, and I’ve admittedly not invested a huge effort into spending countless hours watching breathless YouTubers vying for my attention to figure it out. I have built a few bits and bobs, I feel like I’m ideal in that I’m pretty deep into agentic workflows for work, my house is totally home assistant, I’ve got current tool following models pinned to local 4090’s, I’ve been fine tuning my smaller models, i even have a custom chatterbox based tts/sst pipeline with voice nodes everywhere.
I’d love some OpenClaw master to opine on meaningful use cases beyond clawbook, checking the weather, and telling you about crypto news, as it genuinely feels like something I should find utility for but am just too old or something.
I have the same feeling. I'm even trying to argument to myself upgrading my phone to something newer that would support AI better but I genuinely can't. The only use case I could ever need is maybe(!) using it to fill up shopping list out loud but at this point it, using shared Google Keep it's roughly the same amount of work to just type it. In professional matter though, having an AI agent on Slack, that can query readonly dbs for us, check things, debug problems reported by our users, it's pretty great.
You could ask the same question about any tool ever created. Users who figure out ways to use their agents that are profitable to them make money. Everyone else spends money.
> Users who figure out ways to use their agents that are profitable to them make money
Does anyone know any of these users? Most of the agentic-coding boosters seem to be pretty much exclusively building personal knowledge bases and more agentic coding tools
I might be a little more paranoid than most because of my profession, but none of these projects inspire enough trust to justify being installed - let alone directly on the machine I use every day.
OpenClaw, at least initially, and Hermes both appear to have been heavily astroturfed using all kinds of blackhat tactics, which is a huge red flag to me.
This doesn’t get called out enough. Although actually come to think of it, I think it could be against HN guidelines to accuse things of being Astroturfed!
My simple take: Hermes is for the less technical and is more polished. OpenClaw is deeper with more capabilities.
OpenClaw has come so far since its' original launch/craze. I recommend taking a second look if you haven't touched it in a while. If for no other reason than it's just a really fun playground with a LOT of areas to experiment in. Setup a myriad of agents with various models, skills, cron jobs, etc. The control surfaces have come a long way as well.
Hermes is good fun, running that as well but feels like they focused on polish vs features in order to capitalize on the primitive state that OpenClaw was in for its first months.
People that got attracted to the hype of openclaw but couldn't endure the fast pace of breaking changes while they figured out the problem space were well served by going to Hermes.
About three weeks ago I was seduced by people singing praise to OpenClaw, and also by the fact that OpenClaw team burns millions of dollars of tokens per month on developing it — surely it must be good.
It turned out to be probably the crappiest, glitchiest piece of software I’ve used in the past few years. Its basic onboarding workflow was completely broken, GUI was a hallucinated mess.
Also it turned out that not a single person I know who dedicated time to configuring it, ever achieved anything remotely interesting as a result.
That was my experience a couple months ago, and until someone shows me real evidence of something valuable they've made with it, I'm not wasting my time on this stuff again.
I'm not so sure of that.
A friend of mine automated the lead generation and marketing function of his tiny startup using OpenClaw and set of skills he wrote for it. It would find potential leads (from a list of sources), contact them, score them and keep the owner informed via. Slack about what's going on. They actually closed a few deals following up on leads generated by their bots.
It’s nice that they closed deals but pretty soon this kind of bot spam is going to drown everything out IMO
One success case doesn't prove the comment you responded to isn't true.
It literally does though? GP said they'd never seen anyone achieve anything interesting.
The person you're replying to said they know someone who closed a few deals as a result of their OpenClaw. How is that not interesting?
It doesn't prove that it's globally useful, well implemented, or even worth the cost/effort. But it is something interesting.
My Mac Mini took so long to arrive that I never messed with OpenClaw/Hermes and just went straight to Claude CoWork w/ Dispatch from my phone. One of the biggest blessings in disguise I can remember.
I read /r/openclaw for ideas on automations and 95% of the content is complaints or people having it do things that just don't need to be done.
As a side question for anyone reading this, what are the best agentic AI subreddits for people who are actually using it for work and not just personal dashboards?
I tried OpenClaw, but holy smokes, that project is bigger than Postrgres. All I want is a Pi session I can put on a server and load up with skills, that I can chat with over matrix.
To that end, I found this amazing project called OpenCrow. It's aggressively DM chat, and I wanted support for group chats (so it can be a household helper), so I forked* it and made it exactly what I want.
Now I actually have two personal agents, one just for me, and one for the household. They are each in their own container, and the whole thing is managed by my Nix* config.
* https://github.com/pkulak/opencrow
* https://github.com/pkulak/nix/tree/main/modules/features/ope...
Everything you mentioned OpenClaw does is also something that Hermes supports. Hermes also supports project-scoped kanban boards and can orchestrate across multiple specialized Hermes profiles.
I wasn't trying to go point to point - my point was that its enjoyable to play with. As is Hermes!
What are some examples of features that they have added since December that you use? I originally had setup openclaw back in Jan(?) and had it generating some news summaries for me and stuff. But ran out of ideas... would like to try it out again.
OpenClaw feels messy and unpolished. It's powerful but unreliable.
Hermes is focused, tight and does exactly what it set out to do. I already moved to Hermes.
I really want to like these "agentic assistant" tools, because I feel like the problem they claim to solve is real: give me an interface across desktop and mobile to a persistent backend where I can set up agents (using natural language) to do... whatever I want. Deep market research? Building + hosting a browser game? Checking my email? etc.
But after trying both Hermes and OpenClaw, it feels like they both... miss the point? Last time I tried OpenClaw it wanted to download something like 11 GB of local models to do... something (embeddings for memory indexing or chat labeling/classification maybe?) which my sorry old 16gb M1 is certainly not capable of running.
Hermes seems to suffer from the same problem: why do I need to download (and then immediately disable to avoid confusing my poor "agents"... a concept which I also feel like way too many tools fundamentally misunderstand) skills for managing Spotify playlists or pokemon or minecraft in order to run the thing? (I acknowledge that they cleaned some of this up in a recent release, so maybe this isn't as bad as it was when I last tried it)
WRT "agents"... can someone explain to me why there's so much effort put into naming agents and giving them personalities? An "agent" is simply a separate context window with different prompting (itself written by the spawning/parent "agent") that's specific to a partial slice of the task you're trying to solve. If you have to write their prompt ahead of time that defeats the whole purpose of a programmable, autonomous subagent, doesn't it?
openclaw is for larping
I tried to make mine as human-like as possible, with self-reflection, episodic memory / hippocampus, emotional tagging etc. If you prefer talking to a person, not a tool, you can take a look at https://lethe.gg/ (open source, written in Rust, hosted version available).
It's wonderful, I like it a lot, thank you, need to check on that.
I've used Hermes Agent in a container, and it worked ok. Little rought around the edges, but that's to be expected.
But what I didn't understand... what benefit does it actually bring? On a default loadout, even after disabling tons of skills in the setup wizard, there were lots of useless garbage skills enabled, over 10k of context used just to list them all.
I vibe-coded my own harness that uses ACP so it supports any coding CLI that exposes ACP (copilot cli, opencode, basically every popular one with official or non-official wrappers). And I was able to achieve basically exactly what I wanted from any Claw-like agent, in like a few hours.
I know there's way, way more to these self-sufficient agents (compaction, memory system, etc) but in my mind, it feels like the closer you can be to a barebones "coding agent core" plus "gateways that point to it" the better.
I did the same thing. I use the Pi coding agent and they support extensions. I asked GPT 5.5 to create a Pi extension that has the magic of Hermes and for me that was the long term memory and the cron/scheduling. And that way, I can use Pi as is and turn on these using a slash command.
I've done similar, even to the point of a discord gateway integration that is very similar to the one Hermes ships with.
I still use Hermes because it's not a problem I care about solving right now and am spending my time and tokens on more important problems. I don't plan to always use it, and if anything it gives me ideas for what the ideal shape of what I want would be.
Also to add, having a unified space to chat with an agent that has a local system it can work with is quite liberating because I use it to drive my agent orchestration system. So I'm no longer bound to my computer or any one providers harness and whatever mobile solution they provide if any. It's been quite freeing and I don't use Hermes that differently than I would chatgpt, except it know exactly how I like to do my work and that means I have to remind it less.
It's probably good to at least be aware of the plagiarism debacle around Hermes.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48187581
there is no debacle, ". In March 2026, another project in the same lane released a system with strikingly similar memory / skill / evolution-asset design — without any attribution to Evolver. " there is nothing new about memory (aka sessions saved), skills (aka prompt in a file), etc folks have been doing this for 2+ years.
I'm sorry but if this is not a debacle, then we're operating under very different premises:
- teknium1 retitled the original issue to "." and edited the issue text to "."
- Nous Research deleted comments from 4 users, including the issue submitter, and blocked all of them.
- No formal response has been given by teknium or the Nous Research project. It appears they are trying their darndest to brush it under the rug.
Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48318706
Looking at their blog about it, I don't think Evolver has any claim to be honest. They make such generic claims as that session history was copied because they implemented their history in some `.jsonl` files while Hermes has a session history using sqlite FTS. Evolver better have some attribution crediting Anthropic for their session history feature, because as far as I can tell they've had that implemented since early 2025! Using .jsonl files no less, coincidentally the same way that Evolver decided to implement session history.
I was expecting them to show code samples or something, but to me it looks more like these were two projects that ended up coming up with similar looking features, even with different implementations of these features. I don't see how Nous Research owes them any explanation, especially since at least from that linked issue they were coming in really hot with accusations of plagiarism. If I owned a large OSS project that amassed issues/discussions/PRs at a rate of ~4k per month I would probably also treat this kind of thing as spam.
"Teknium" was also defending things on X like a Polymarket skill being pre-installed and stuff.
Seems like both projects are a bit unprofessional in terms of leaders. Hermes just tries to sound more authoritative with the "Nous Research" name and fancy site, etc.
Note that the polymarket skill was for using it as a research source, not for placing wagers, and has since been removed as part of a larger streamlining of the included set of skills.
I have no idea what these three things mean without more context.
This [0] is the issue in question. teknium1 replaced the entire issue text with a dot, and NousResearch deleted a bunch of subsequent comments.
Whether the claims have merit or not, attempting to make the claim go away in this way is at best unprofessional and childish.
[0] https://github.com/NousResearch/hermes-agent/issues/10232
Looks like the complainant blogged about it here:
https://evomap.ai/blog/hermes-agent-evolver-similarity-analy...
Ya I can't take them seriously after reading through that, they sound like a bunch of clowns. There was no evidence of anything other than 'this company had similar features that we offered'
Boo fucking hoo. The desktop agent space converges on a small set of features that overlap. Grow the fuck up.
I think they probably understand that those complaints hold weight within a <=2010s ethical framework but now we live in the brave new world.
And this weirdness:
"Hermes Agent (and others) default Installs are silently routing web traffic to Parallel"
https://www.reddit.com/r/hermesagent/comments/1u5ukz6/hermes...
Wow, the response from their team was really awful.
Basically: it is a free service, free is good, why are you being difficult?
People running Hermes on local models thought their data was theirs, but what if the model is not the only leakage vector??
I just asked Antigravity to clone the repo to look to see if it might have leaky code and it flat out refused three times in a row to even clone it. It would seem the snake is eating its own head.
And already removed: https://github.com/NousResearch/hermes-agent/pull/46350
tl;dr for people who just read the inaccurate quote: It was the default search provider (for free), if you configured anything else, it was not used. They removed the default.
Linking to the claim [1] might be stronger.
[1] https://evomap.ai/blog/hermes-agent-evolver-similarity-analy...
Did you read it? Given it's all AI slop I wouldn't be surprised if not, but the claim is basically "I had this idea first, I think they stole it from me."
Not that they stole code or even copy, just the idea from a completely open source project (at the time).
Given how many people have posted and released similar systems over the time skills came out and even before, that's a huge claim with no substance to back it.
> Did you read it?
Not particularly. But at least that source tries to explain what happened.
I agree on the point of linking it, which the HN thread linked before supposedly had a link to the blog post in question but it did not have any content. So thanks for sharing nonetheless.
Wow, I didn't know that. I was getting impressed by Hermes but yeah, I didn't know about it so thanks for telling me.
The behaviour by NousResearch is a bit bad (if I am understanding it correctly, I can be wrong, I usually am) but given its an open source project. I don't think that accredition makes a project bad and I simply don't understand the rationale behind a lot of it and streissand effect is starting to kick in the more they might be trying to hide it.
Why not just accredit EvoMap's Evolver or come up with an official statement or have a proper discussion between the two teams
> The behaviour by NousResearch is so bad given its an open source project. I don't think that accredition makes a project bad and I simply don't understand the rationale behind a lot of it and streissand effect is starting to kick in the more they might be trying to hide it.
> Why not just accredit EvoMap's Evolver or come up with an official statement or have a proper discussion between the two teams
Given that LLMs are capable of generating code from open source projects verbatim (and entire books like Harry Potter verbatim) and no one gives a damn it seems like copyright is essentially a dead letter, legally speaking at least And the courts (in the US and elsewhere) haven't decided to intervene at all. Still a scummy thing to do morally though, I agree.
1. This is bad, if true.
2. In the future, there won't be copyright. Or open source. Or anything "owned". It can all just be copied trivially, and there's literally no stopping it.
3. I don't know how to feel about any of that. This is so new and complicated. The whole world is changing dramatically and being completely reshaped.
As Musk and Dorsey have said, IP law is highly incompatible with AI.
Wasn't there some news a while ago that Anthropic and other frontier model companies used a bunch of pirated books to train their models? Are we not all benefiting from the fact that they also crawled a bunch of open code repos?
If something is open source, it's pretty easy to tell if code is pulled directly from another repo and included in a project. It's much harder to know if whatever model was building something pulled from it (through training or simply searching online).
> Wasn't there some news a while ago that Anthropic and other frontier model companies used a bunch of pirated books to train their models? Are we not all benefiting from the fact that they also crawled a bunch of open code repos?
It was Meta. With Zuck's explicit permission.
& Anthropic owes $1.5b
https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-authors-copyright-judge...
can someone tell me the actual market size for technophiles who I think are only people who use this stuff? I get lost in fact that people can't really understand that end of day this is just llm calls with like sqlite facade. I see the value is the convenience only of not having to set stuff up, but everyone else claims it does all this extra stuff that is not trivial to reproduce yourself.
> can someone tell me the actual market size for technophiles who I think are only people who use this stuff?
Approximately zero. Grifters, FOMO driven technophiles, and wannabe "founders" jumped on the bandwagon because it was "the next big thing" (where did I hear that before?). Now that the creator got cushy job at OpenAI, and the hype is over, it's just another tech bro toy to burn tokens with and scratch your OCD.
I don't get it, why not put codex/claude code/opencode in a docker container and be done with it?
openclaw = claude code + memory + cron job
persistent memory plus cron job lets you do stuff that you can't do with just codex/claude code/opencode
Claude at least has had memory for months, and also has scheduling now (and knows cron better than you or I, and can easily trigger itself on a schedule)
Why not just use one of the hundreds of persistent memory projects with Codex CLI/Codex App? Plus Codex App has scheduled tasks too.
This is what https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/scion does
Yeah, everyone has built their own version of all this shit.
I built smth similar which lets you delegate from say local model to Claude or mimicode to pi. It does audited, workspace segregated mcp calls with only 3 tools ever in context. It can store skills, cross harness memory, inbuilt AI first task manager. Workflows that can run on triggers or schedules which take skills, a model, a prompt and a hand picked set of mcp tools (very granular).
I use this to let me know what’s going on, to save tokens in Claude by delegating to MiMo and deepseek, and local models in pi.
No one using these things has a use case for them - if they did they’d have built it themselves like I have. Because with ai… you can!
Oh and it can work via telegram (cos if it doesn’t is it even an ai harness token furnace!!??)
I still don't understand the point of these. I use AI basically 12 hours a day, and still haven't found a use case for it that isn't solved easily with existing tools, bash scripts, cron jobs, etc. Especially with Codex App now, why do I need OpenClaw? I don't need to be able to call my AI agent on the phone... That's a gimmick.
I set up a Hermes agent for our company and connected it to BigQuery, Stripe, Amplitude, etc so that our nontechnical teammates can ask and answer their own data questions via Slack. It works great!
I similarly haven’t found it useful to run a bunch of these agents in developing the product, but it’s a nice interface for people who don’t live in their terminal all day.
What are you automating with OpenClaw in June, 2026?
I used OpenClaw -> Hermes -> my own thing now.
I've got things like code review, email inbox/spam filtering, website monitoring for bad links/typos, HN/Bluesky notifications, favorite director/actors/author alerts, etc.
I mostly interact with them using Slack and Email.
I don't understand people running OpenClaw. I just full shot a prompt to create a better clone. Its extremely custom to my work and flow. I use it as a personal agent, emails, slacks + as a hardcore coding agent. If it sees a problem in email it will create a ticket, assign it to an agent monitor progress, get a PR ready for me - then it harasses me until I review the PR. If I ignore the PR it will call my wife. It can also reason on what emails need critical attention etc.
OpenClaw deserves a lot of credit for making these things more accessible and understandable to people. It really popularized the idea of async agents. But yeah, I also created a different solution that I prefer.
Does Hermes still come bundled with a Polymarket skill enabled by default?
https://hermes-agent.nousresearch.com/docs/reference/skills-...
When I dropped my Claude sub a few months ago I first went to try pi. At first I was a little overwhelmed by having to browse extensions to get the experience I want (coupled with finding new model providers to use).
So I looked elsewhere and found Crush and Hermes. They're both very a e s t h e t i c, which I think can make using them fun, but ultimately if I had a nitpick, I would look back over at pi, and the grass looked greener. (And not to mention, both Hermes and Crush seem to have some drama/baggage.)
I'm back on pi, and happy with just a few packages I've downloaded for it.
I understand that hermes needs to do be able to do "everything" but I can't stand how much crap comes along with it.
It feels like when you do a fresh Windows install and you have to debloat it from all the spyware and candy crush type games.
Pi is the perfect clean slate, I absolutely love it.
This is specifically for migrating to Hermes from OpenClaw. The title should suggest that.
I still don't really get the case for OpenClaw/NanoClaw/Hermes Agent/etc. I guess it's a mix of huge stacks of notes/second brain stuff but with a way to query it, and a place where all personal "AI apps" can live ; instead of making AI apps "individually" and deploying them somewhere?
I do have a website on which I've been adding more and more stuff for personal use and for sharing with people, but when I want to develop it I do it with any agent I'm using right now (Codex, Claude Code, Pi, etc) and when I want to ask questions about it, it's usually on the public internet so any chat interface can query it. That leaves two things: asking questions about more private stuff, and possibly a "claw" that lives on your computer/on a small server is less of a pain to connect to private stuff than building a MCP and authenticate yourself through it ; and apps that themselves use models, which can be developed by the "code agent" and then I can plug whatever model I want on it.
My struggle is despite giving it a good honest go I couldn’t find the use case for OpenClaw. Maybe I and my life is just too simple, and I’ve admittedly not invested a huge effort into spending countless hours watching breathless YouTubers vying for my attention to figure it out. I have built a few bits and bobs, I feel like I’m ideal in that I’m pretty deep into agentic workflows for work, my house is totally home assistant, I’ve got current tool following models pinned to local 4090’s, I’ve been fine tuning my smaller models, i even have a custom chatterbox based tts/sst pipeline with voice nodes everywhere.
I’d love some OpenClaw master to opine on meaningful use cases beyond clawbook, checking the weather, and telling you about crypto news, as it genuinely feels like something I should find utility for but am just too old or something.
I have the same feeling. I'm even trying to argument to myself upgrading my phone to something newer that would support AI better but I genuinely can't. The only use case I could ever need is maybe(!) using it to fill up shopping list out loud but at this point it, using shared Google Keep it's roughly the same amount of work to just type it. In professional matter though, having an AI agent on Slack, that can query readonly dbs for us, check things, debug problems reported by our users, it's pretty great.
OpenJaw.
Other than the hosting providers, who is making money directly from OpenClaw or Hermes Agent?
It only appears that the hosting providers are and not the user spending thousands of dollars on these agents.
You could ask the same question about any tool ever created. Users who figure out ways to use their agents that are profitable to them make money. Everyone else spends money.
> Users who figure out ways to use their agents that are profitable to them make money
Does anyone know any of these users? Most of the agentic-coding boosters seem to be pretty much exclusively building personal knowledge bases and more agentic coding tools
Did you invest in teknium's company, JumpCrisscross?
Not that I'd blame you. Hermes is really great.
That's great, but did you invest in Eastern Poland?
How about Denmark before Ozempic
> Did you invest in teknium's company, JumpCrisscross?
Nope!
Is it bad that I want to try Hermes but look at the code and see setup.py and no project.toml and it gives me pause?
I might be a little more paranoid than most because of my profession, but none of these projects inspire enough trust to justify being installed - let alone directly on the machine I use every day.
OpenClaw, at least initially, and Hermes both appear to have been heavily astroturfed using all kinds of blackhat tactics, which is a huge red flag to me.
And then there is the code.
This doesn’t get called out enough. Although actually come to think of it, I think it could be against HN guidelines to accuse things of being Astroturfed!
You should be looking for a pyproject.toml: https://github.com/NousResearch/hermes-agent/blob/main/pypro...
And a uv.lock is also there...
My bad... saw the setup.py and quickly posted.