Your comment tastes a lot like American right-wing billionaire word salad. The only thing missing is some reference to Soros.
Orban is supported directly by Trump, Thiel, and company. These are literally the most elite rich folks on the globe. They are all against democracy and are pro-authoritarian. As TFA points out, the experiment has been run, and it leads to ruin. That's just facts.
Indeed the linked article is its own jumble of leftist billionaire word-salad. Classic stuff like “defending democracy” while simultaneously overturning elections (see Romania) that they don’t like and subverting the will of the electorate by flooding the country with refugees (see EU penalties).
And what exactly is wrong with classic modern Democracy/Social Democracy, if the alternative is authoritarianism?
Even neolibs are better than authoritarians. The Overton Window has moved so far to the right, that self described nazis are invited to the White House, and this is an actual conversation that we are having.
>And what exactly is wrong with classic modern Democracy/Social Democracy, if the alternative is authoritarianism?
That is has become a uniparty, undemocratic authoritarianism itself, and when applied as foreign influence, it's just another mask of global neoliberalism and client state relations.
I don't think the poster was saying that Orban wasn't bad, just that Cato saying something about it isn't particularly signifying.
Also... neoliberalism is basically what you think of when you think "right-wing billionaire word salad" from like 6 years ago. Neoliberalism is the the idea of elevating "the market" to the absolute primacy of... everything. Neoliberalism is coined relative to the traditional "liberalism", specifically the part of traditional liberalism that supported free trade and marketization.
The Cato Institute was literally founded by one of the Koch brothers, and has been staunchly neoliberal/libertarian. It stands in opposition to many of the policies of the current far-right/ex-right movement, because those policies call for a fusion of market and government that actually is fundamentally incompatible with neoliberalism. Furthermore, we should be aware that the populist surge that is at least partly powering this surge is itself a reaction to the conditions that neoliberalism (and institutional capture) has created.
Yes, and the Overton Window has moved so far to the far-right, that my largely progressive ass is agreeing with Cato in this case. Yet, here we are, due to the content of TFA being based on fact.
Were you surprised to learn that Cato are neoliberal shills? Water is wet too.
As for Soros, you mean the finacial speculator and policy influence middleman? Yeah, such a paragon for democracy and openess.
Yes, Orban is supported directly by Trump, Thiel, and company. The elites at large however, before, during, and after Trump do not support him that much. As for Thiel, I'm not sure whether he likes or dislikes Orban, but that's irrelevant, as he has his grabby hands in Europe already anyway.
Orban might be a bs populist, but the basic idea, of putting national sovereignity first, and dismantling all the crap influence of the neoliberal AND liberal global establishment is solid. Trump got elected for something like that, before pissing all over it with his neocon/neoliberal hawk friends. Even Bernie got high on a similar ticket, before the Dems gutted him and he put his tail between his legs.
>As TFA points out, the experiment has been run, and it leads to ruin. That's just facts.
Well, if an article says it, I guess there's no denying it. Articles, after all, are facts, and can't have their own agendas. Especially from a think tank as neutral and with such a great track record as Cato.
Orban is bad (for all the wrong reasons), but you know who Cato loves (for all the wrong reasons again)? Neoliberal useful idiot Millei:
Why is your argument so 100% this side, or 100% that side? It's giving major "Genocide Joe" -> Trump victory energy.
Cato used to be the something like the ultimate devil in my mind, they still are to some extent based on their origins, but things have gotten so much worse that they actually posted a rational argument.
Do their origins mean that I have to be so tribalist that I cannot agree with one of their posts? I live near Hungary, and see the effects of Orbanists daily.
Did you actually read TFA? It's a downright flogging of the ideas behind Project 2025/Heritage Foundation/MAGA philosophy.
cato and reason are the only conservative/libertarian sites i respect. they actually believe in democracy and freedom, just defined in a different way from mine and focused on other issues that more liberal or leftist media ignore. reason has a lot of coverage on eminent domain laws and online censorship for example. compare that to fox but also more "educated" places like the free press or quillette and the difference is clear.
The results are not yet in. Don't forget how "sovereign democracies" do elections. Just look at how Russia, Turkey, Georgia or the US are doing their elections. Vladislav Surkov, Putin's wizard was right. Just give them bread and circuses.
It’s got to be bad if Cato are dissing them.
To be fair if you look back at what they previously written they critiqued Orban for over a decade.
I was checking if the url had weird Unicode shit going on, or something.
How so? Cat are open borders people, no?
Or the exact opposite. Cato are just neoliberal elite shills. Anything that hurts the bottom line of that class is "bad".
Your comment tastes a lot like American right-wing billionaire word salad. The only thing missing is some reference to Soros.
Orban is supported directly by Trump, Thiel, and company. These are literally the most elite rich folks on the globe. They are all against democracy and are pro-authoritarian. As TFA points out, the experiment has been run, and it leads to ruin. That's just facts.
Orban’s opponents are also supported directly by the American Liberal establishment, including Obama, Soros, etc.
https://www.obama.org/stories/president-obama-explores-ways-...
>Barack Obama Targets Hungary, Poland in His ‘Fight for Democracy’
https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/barac...
Indeed the linked article is its own jumble of leftist billionaire word-salad. Classic stuff like “defending democracy” while simultaneously overturning elections (see Romania) that they don’t like and subverting the will of the electorate by flooding the country with refugees (see EU penalties).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024%E2%80%932025_Romanian_ele...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clww729180po
And what exactly is wrong with classic modern Democracy/Social Democracy, if the alternative is authoritarianism?
Even neolibs are better than authoritarians. The Overton Window has moved so far to the right, that self described nazis are invited to the White House, and this is an actual conversation that we are having.
>And what exactly is wrong with classic modern Democracy/Social Democracy, if the alternative is authoritarianism?
That is has become a uniparty, undemocratic authoritarianism itself, and when applied as foreign influence, it's just another mask of global neoliberalism and client state relations.
Are you kidding me? You are clearly not up to date on actual facts on the ground, and you are just repeating very stale talking points.
I don't think the poster was saying that Orban wasn't bad, just that Cato saying something about it isn't particularly signifying.
Also... neoliberalism is basically what you think of when you think "right-wing billionaire word salad" from like 6 years ago. Neoliberalism is the the idea of elevating "the market" to the absolute primacy of... everything. Neoliberalism is coined relative to the traditional "liberalism", specifically the part of traditional liberalism that supported free trade and marketization.
The Cato Institute was literally founded by one of the Koch brothers, and has been staunchly neoliberal/libertarian. It stands in opposition to many of the policies of the current far-right/ex-right movement, because those policies call for a fusion of market and government that actually is fundamentally incompatible with neoliberalism. Furthermore, we should be aware that the populist surge that is at least partly powering this surge is itself a reaction to the conditions that neoliberalism (and institutional capture) has created.
Yes, and the Overton Window has moved so far to the far-right, that my largely progressive ass is agreeing with Cato in this case. Yet, here we are, due to the content of TFA being based on fact.
Were you surprised to learn that Cato are neoliberal shills? Water is wet too.
As for Soros, you mean the finacial speculator and policy influence middleman? Yeah, such a paragon for democracy and openess.
Yes, Orban is supported directly by Trump, Thiel, and company. The elites at large however, before, during, and after Trump do not support him that much. As for Thiel, I'm not sure whether he likes or dislikes Orban, but that's irrelevant, as he has his grabby hands in Europe already anyway.
Orban might be a bs populist, but the basic idea, of putting national sovereignity first, and dismantling all the crap influence of the neoliberal AND liberal global establishment is solid. Trump got elected for something like that, before pissing all over it with his neocon/neoliberal hawk friends. Even Bernie got high on a similar ticket, before the Dems gutted him and he put his tail between his legs.
>As TFA points out, the experiment has been run, and it leads to ruin. That's just facts.
Well, if an article says it, I guess there's no denying it. Articles, after all, are facts, and can't have their own agendas. Especially from a think tank as neutral and with such a great track record as Cato.
Orban is bad (for all the wrong reasons), but you know who Cato loves (for all the wrong reasons again)? Neoliberal useful idiot Millei:
https://www.cato.org/commentary/javier-milei-legitimacy-libe...
Why is your argument so 100% this side, or 100% that side? It's giving major "Genocide Joe" -> Trump victory energy.
Cato used to be the something like the ultimate devil in my mind, they still are to some extent based on their origins, but things have gotten so much worse that they actually posted a rational argument.
Do their origins mean that I have to be so tribalist that I cannot agree with one of their posts? I live near Hungary, and see the effects of Orbanists daily.
Did you actually read TFA? It's a downright flogging of the ideas behind Project 2025/Heritage Foundation/MAGA philosophy.
Could you please, for a moment, take the win?
cato and reason are the only conservative/libertarian sites i respect. they actually believe in democracy and freedom, just defined in a different way from mine and focused on other issues that more liberal or leftist media ignore. reason has a lot of coverage on eminent domain laws and online censorship for example. compare that to fox but also more "educated" places like the free press or quillette and the difference is clear.
constitutional coups.
unfortunately being attempted all over from Hungary, Russia(successfully), Zimbabwe (currently in progress) and other nations all over.
Magyar was member of Fidesz up to 2024. So if he actually wins would this be meaningful change or just internal party infighting?
He seems much less into Putin and corruption than Orban, hence Trump making a big effort to support Orban.
The results are not yet in. Don't forget how "sovereign democracies" do elections. Just look at how Russia, Turkey, Georgia or the US are doing their elections. Vladislav Surkov, Putin's wizard was right. Just give them bread and circuses.
They're not saying the election results are in. They're saying Orban's style of rule has been a disaster for Hungary.
Surkov is much more sophisticated than that. "Managed opposition", for example, is closer to evil genius level.
[dead]
[dead]