It would be cool to see the EU bar a few tech CEOs from travel to Europe, since they’re very clearly the people behind this. Say Zuckerberg and Musk. Tit for tat immigration restrictions seems like a hot upcoming idea.
I'd rather not, because it would damage the power dynamic of the EU.
The USA is an all-powerfull political entity that can dictate terms on its own. A bit like a monopoly. Europe is a large group of players, condemned to each other, making parallel but not identical choices (e.g are you in/out/half part of the EU).
This changes the way you talk to others, as you'll need to talk to them again, and the power dynamic will have shifted.
So the USA knows it's the best at everything, and will loudly declare it. Most inhabitants only have second hand impressions from other cultures.
European countries each know they individually are the best, but there are tons of neighbours with near status, so it's impolite to say it loud. If differences get big, you can't help but notice next time you enter a neighbour.
The neverending wars, culminating in WWI and WWII, tought everyone what happened when you stop communicating and start ordering. A lot of our politics is trying not to restart that and working together with others who we don't like very much. The EU is but one such project, and if we're honest, the USA pushing for stability was one helper in the past.
One way to look at Trump is: Can we Europeans deal with each others as adults when the big USA stick has disappeared. And can we talk to a partner who seems to have gone mad temporarily but might come back ?
> Can we Europeans deal with each others as adults when the big USA stick has disappeared. And can we talk to a partner who seems to have gone mad temporarily but might come back ?
There's always a bigger bully for the EU for it to go back to bickering within itself. USA, Russia, later China, maybe Turkey and the rest of the MENA down the line....
Hey, it could be worse. They could have voted to ban it entirely unless they sold their European operations to friends of EU bureaucrats. There's some precedent for that now.
> Well, that ain't as bad news/punishment as it used to be.
Agreed. My company (which is smallish but quite international) has largely stopped meetups/conferences/etc. in the US because so many people either have to wait ages for a visa, or are from countries now on blacklists. This is not to mention the risk of getting randomly pulled by TSA/ICE/etc. I have to imagine this is much more widespread than just my company as well.
Fun to watch a superpower attempt self-destruction. /s Too bad it'll probably hurt all of us in some form or another.
Same! The open source project I engage with, held the yearly conference always alternatingly in America and Europe over the past 10 years. And due to the current circumstances it was just recently decided to have next year's conference a 2nd time in a row in Europe.
As a European I’m pleased to see consequences for these arrogant unelected bureaucrats. Breton, in particular, seemed to delight in attacking free speech.
Breton once threatened Musk simply for hosting an interview with the democratically-elected President of the US on X:
We all know the correct, American way to deal with democratically-elected Presidents of foreign nations is to overthrow them, bomb them or if all else fails assassinate them.
At some point you need to draw a hard line in sand when it comes to people trying to actively supress freedom of expression.
Otherwise they just keep trying and trying. A bully won't stop until he gets punched in the face, and this is what the USA did to the EU bully bureaucrats pushing their will everywhere.
While I don't love over-regulation, and there certainly are some parts of the DSA which are probably over-broad, it is astonishingly rich that the current US administration is targeting the EU for "suppressing freedom of expression".
Also banned: “Imran Ahmed, the British CEO of the US-based Center for Countering Digital Hate; Anna-Lena von Hodenberg and Josephine Ballon of the German non-profit HateAid; and Clare Melford, co-founder of the Global Disinformation Index”
The bullies are anti-disinformation and anti-hate speech activists?
The USA using its diplomatic power to become a defender of hate-speech and disinformation?
I guess when JD Vance deliberately snubbed the democratically elected government of the country when visiting Germany and instead spent his time with a far-right neo-nazi party, it should have been clear which way the wind was blowing.
Land of the free looking like rank shitty low cowards, afraid of every shadow these days. Absolutely no tolerance, demanding subservience. It's totally up-side down, just madcap that any of this is OK with anyone. All Correct turning to All In-Correct, all wrong.
If you wanna operate in a market you have to follow said market's rules and regulations, full stop and period. The only ones actively trying to suppress freedom of expression are the bullies and borderline sociopaths currently in the US executive.
If you've ever read Thierry Breton's personal (and public) threats towards Elon Musk you'd understand who the real "bully and borderline sociopath" was.
Breton once threatened Musk simply for hosting an interview with the democratically-elected President of the US on X:
In the UK we told the EU bully bureaucrats to go f*ck themselves in 2016.
The same thing is possible in all EU nations - never give up hope.
The EU bureaucracy stunts growth on the continent. It's undemocratic (only the executive can originate and repeal law - and they are appointed, not elected), protectionist, bullying, expensive and unnecessary.
Successful nations like Switzerland and Norway (#3 and #4 highest GDP per capita in the European continent) show that you don't need to be an EU member state to prosper, maintain peaceful government and strong human rights protections.
When, in 2029, we have our first decent government in decades, let’s have this conversation again.
Both the Tories and Labour have squandered the opportunities afforded by Brexit. Both parties are weak globalist shills.
Current polling suggests the situation in 2029 will be very different, and we will enjoy an administration that puts the national interest at the forefront of every policy decision. No more narrow-minded focus on the EU27, and much more focus on our service export to the dynamic English speaking economies of the world.
No more growth-killing EU directives lingering on our statute books.
No more deference to foreign human rights lawyers. The UK is perfectly capable of administering its own improved British Bill of Rights.
No more unskilled immigration lowering our national productivity and hammering our limited infrastructure and public services. Targeted legal immigration at the volume we need and no more.
It would be cool to see the EU bar a few tech CEOs from travel to Europe, since they’re very clearly the people behind this. Say Zuckerberg and Musk. Tit for tat immigration restrictions seems like a hot upcoming idea.
I'd rather not, because it would damage the power dynamic of the EU.
The USA is an all-powerfull political entity that can dictate terms on its own. A bit like a monopoly. Europe is a large group of players, condemned to each other, making parallel but not identical choices (e.g are you in/out/half part of the EU).
This changes the way you talk to others, as you'll need to talk to them again, and the power dynamic will have shifted.
So the USA knows it's the best at everything, and will loudly declare it. Most inhabitants only have second hand impressions from other cultures.
European countries each know they individually are the best, but there are tons of neighbours with near status, so it's impolite to say it loud. If differences get big, you can't help but notice next time you enter a neighbour.
The neverending wars, culminating in WWI and WWII, tought everyone what happened when you stop communicating and start ordering. A lot of our politics is trying not to restart that and working together with others who we don't like very much. The EU is but one such project, and if we're honest, the USA pushing for stability was one helper in the past.
One way to look at Trump is: Can we Europeans deal with each others as adults when the big USA stick has disappeared. And can we talk to a partner who seems to have gone mad temporarily but might come back ?
> Can we Europeans deal with each others as adults when the big USA stick has disappeared. And can we talk to a partner who seems to have gone mad temporarily but might come back ?
There's always a bigger bully for the EU for it to go back to bickering within itself. USA, Russia, later China, maybe Turkey and the rest of the MENA down the line....
Like the founder of telegram?
The EU should target US oligarchs like it does Russian ones insofar that they support Trump's hostilities toward the EU.
Musk is probably the most obvious candidate for this, but there are several others.
Of course, they dared to impede the US social media propaganda machine. How could they.
Hey, it could be worse. They could have voted to ban it entirely unless they sold their European operations to friends of EU bureaucrats. There's some precedent for that now.
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46374087
Sounds like it's working then
[dupe] Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46370787
The EU is not a democracy now but a government run by bureaucrats who jail opponents for having dissenting opinions.
The chants of "lock her [their political opponents] up" ring out from their rallies.
I wasn't aware of that. Example?
Well, that ain't as bad news/punishment as it used to be.
Not many people want to visit the US under Trump anymore and many countries already have travel advisories for the US now.
> Well, that ain't as bad news/punishment as it used to be.
Agreed. My company (which is smallish but quite international) has largely stopped meetups/conferences/etc. in the US because so many people either have to wait ages for a visa, or are from countries now on blacklists. This is not to mention the risk of getting randomly pulled by TSA/ICE/etc. I have to imagine this is much more widespread than just my company as well.
Fun to watch a superpower attempt self-destruction. /s Too bad it'll probably hurt all of us in some form or another.
Same! The open source project I engage with, held the yearly conference always alternatingly in America and Europe over the past 10 years. And due to the current circumstances it was just recently decided to have next year's conference a 2nd time in a row in Europe.
Yeah. I work for an international company. Lots of US customers as well.
They are a Canadian company.
Travel to US is basically only on a per case basis.
UN hq is in New York for exemple.
I can be worse if US companies like VISA or Google are forced to not service this person like it was done with International Court of Justice judges.
Leading with a generic bit on misinformation will get major eye rolls after what happened during covid.
[flagged]
> cannot afford the war against Putin without American help
Yet. And the US gov shows clear intent that it should remain so.
So... EU demands US follow EU dictats = good US demands EU follow US dictats = bad got it.
Impartant context: EU demands US follow EU law on EU soil for EU consumers.
EU stuff must abie by US law when going to the US, vice versa as well.
As a European I’m pleased to see consequences for these arrogant unelected bureaucrats. Breton, in particular, seemed to delight in attacking free speech.
Breton once threatened Musk simply for hosting an interview with the democratically-elected President of the US on X:
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-elon-musk-donald-trump-in...
We all know the correct, American way to deal with democratically-elected Presidents of foreign nations is to overthrow them, bomb them or if all else fails assassinate them.
At some point you need to draw a hard line in sand when it comes to people trying to actively supress freedom of expression.
Otherwise they just keep trying and trying. A bully won't stop until he gets punched in the face, and this is what the USA did to the EU bully bureaucrats pushing their will everywhere.
Shame that so few of us Europeans do the same.
While I don't love over-regulation, and there certainly are some parts of the DSA which are probably over-broad, it is astonishingly rich that the current US administration is targeting the EU for "suppressing freedom of expression".
Also banned: “Imran Ahmed, the British CEO of the US-based Center for Countering Digital Hate; Anna-Lena von Hodenberg and Josephine Ballon of the German non-profit HateAid; and Clare Melford, co-founder of the Global Disinformation Index”
The bullies are anti-disinformation and anti-hate speech activists?
The USA using its diplomatic power to become a defender of hate-speech and disinformation?
I guess when JD Vance deliberately snubbed the democratically elected government of the country when visiting Germany and instead spent his time with a far-right neo-nazi party, it should have been clear which way the wind was blowing.
Land of the free looking like rank shitty low cowards, afraid of every shadow these days. Absolutely no tolerance, demanding subservience. It's totally up-side down, just madcap that any of this is OK with anyone. All Correct turning to All In-Correct, all wrong.
If you wanna operate in a market you have to follow said market's rules and regulations, full stop and period. The only ones actively trying to suppress freedom of expression are the bullies and borderline sociopaths currently in the US executive.
If you've ever read Thierry Breton's personal (and public) threats towards Elon Musk you'd understand who the real "bully and borderline sociopath" was.
Breton once threatened Musk simply for hosting an interview with the democratically-elected President of the US on X:
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-elon-musk-donald-trump-in...
EU bureaucrats have behaved terribly and deserve our contempt.
In the UK we told the EU bully bureaucrats to go f*ck themselves in 2016.
The same thing is possible in all EU nations - never give up hope.
The EU bureaucracy stunts growth on the continent. It's undemocratic (only the executive can originate and repeal law - and they are appointed, not elected), protectionist, bullying, expensive and unnecessary.
Successful nations like Switzerland and Norway (#3 and #4 highest GDP per capita in the European continent) show that you don't need to be an EU member state to prosper, maintain peaceful government and strong human rights protections.
>Successful nations like Switzerland and Norway
I absolutely love the absence of the UK in your list.
When, in 2029, we have our first decent government in decades, let’s have this conversation again.
Both the Tories and Labour have squandered the opportunities afforded by Brexit. Both parties are weak globalist shills.
Current polling suggests the situation in 2029 will be very different, and we will enjoy an administration that puts the national interest at the forefront of every policy decision. No more narrow-minded focus on the EU27, and much more focus on our service export to the dynamic English speaking economies of the world.
No more growth-killing EU directives lingering on our statute books.
No more deference to foreign human rights lawyers. The UK is perfectly capable of administering its own improved British Bill of Rights.
No more unskilled immigration lowering our national productivity and hammering our limited infrastructure and public services. Targeted legal immigration at the volume we need and no more.
They said successful.
The UK has a lower (and declining) GDP per capita than most countries in Western Europe.